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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am 46 and I too experienced sexual
discrimination—some very blatant such as not receiving a summer TA
appointment because my husband worked while the men who received them had wives
making more than my husband. There were also very subtle derogatory comments. I
have also found women who were great mentors until I became a colleague rather
than being in need of mentoring then it would get competitive and a different
form of discrimination occurs. <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I do think things are improving but we are
not even close to achieving equality when young math majors are espousing
gender stereotypes that are detrimental to girls and young women. At WSU
several colleagues and I bring equity issues into many of our programs and
classes and there is little understanding of the issues or the need for many of
our undergraduates until they have more exposure. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There are still young men who come up to
me and say things like “wow I did not know women were smart enough to
teach this”. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Students and salutations on letters say “Dear
Sir” or “Mrs. Vincent” rather than Dr. Vincent, while men colleagues
are referred to as Dr. or Professor. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Take a look at story problems in math
texts…women may be present or the person involved may have not gender.
But if you analyze what women and minorities are doing in the story problems in
many texts is often things that are stereotypical of European American men.
Equity is not about changing women and minorities into European American men;
instead equity is recognizing and allowing choice.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All of these are minor and subtle, but
they pile up and when seen collectively there is still a very long way to go. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kimberly Vincent<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on"><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Washington</span></font></st1:PlaceName><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">State</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></span></font></st1:place><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dept of Mathematics<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
rume-bounces@betterfilecabinet.com [mailto:rume-bounces@betterfilecabinet.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>lida-k-barrett@att.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:57
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Crowley, Lillie F (<st1:place
w:st="on">Bluegrass</st1:place>); Murphy,TJ; Sarah Natividad;
rume@betterfilecabinet.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> tjmurphy@ou.edu<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [RUME] Proof and
Prejudice: Women in Mathematics and Physics</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>As a 79 year old, as of the 21st of this month, I am delighted to hear
things have changed, and I know they have though not totally. For a look
at the 1940-1960 era see Margaret Murray's "Women Becoming
Mathematicians" Lida<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div id=signature>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>--<br>
Lida K. Barrett <br>
3407 Crown Point Road <br>
Louisville, TN 37777-3331 <br>
865-984-6599 <br>
lida-k-barrett@att.net<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message from "<st1:City w:st="on">Crowley</st1:City>,
Lillie F (<st1:place w:st="on">Bluegrass</st1:place>)"
<lillie.crowley@kctcs.edu>: -------------- <br>
<br>
<br>
> I'm a fifty-something in mathematics. In response to Sarah Natividad's
comments <br>
> about having never experienced any discrimination because she's female, I
would <br>
> suggest that a significant factor is that those battles have been fought
for her <br>
> by a lot of fifty-somethings...and sixty-somethings and forty-somethings...
<br>
> <br>
> That's about all I am going to say, except to suggest that, should she
decide to <br>
> pursue a doctorate later after her children are older, she will find it
MUCH, <br>
> MUCH more difficult to do than she would have when she was in her
twenties. <br>
> There are two reasons for this (this is my opinion only, but based on
personal <br>
> experience...): first, she won't have the mental acuity in he r forties
that she <br>
> did in her twenties, and will also have to re-learn much of the
mathematics she <br>
> learned in graduate school before she left; and incorporating graduate
study <br>
> into an already full and complicated life is a real challenge. <br>
> <br>
> Cheers, Lillie Crowley <br>
> <br>
> ________________________________ <br>
> <br>
> From: rume-bounces@betterfilecabinet.com on behalf of Murphy, TJ <br>
> Sent: Tue 4/25/2006 8:21 AM <br>
> To: Sarah Natividad; rume@betterfilecabinet.com <br>
> Cc: tjmurphy@ou.edu <br>
> Subject: Re: [RUME] Proof and Prejudice: Women in Mathematics and Physics <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Sarah, <br>
> <br>
> I suggest you read the book Why So Slow: The Advancement of Women by
researcher <br>
> Virginia Valian. <br>
> <br>
> Best wishes, <br>
> Teri Murphy <br>
> <br>
> At 9:20 PM -0600 4/24/06, Sarah Natividad wrote: <br>
> <br>
> I'm a thirty-something-year-old woman and your mileage may vary, but I <br>
> for one have never experienced prejudice in the mathematical world. No <br>
> one has ever once said to me that I can't be as good at math because I'm <br>
> female. I've always been hired for what's between my ears. I've never <br>
> been treated more poorly than my male colleagues. I have been treated <br>
> poorly on occasion, but mostly because I'm not so high up on the faculty <br>
> food chain. <br>
> <br>
> Now you might argue that it's because I'm a woman that I'm so low on the <br>
> faculty food chain, and you'd be right. I chose to stop at a Master's <br>
> degree and be a Lecturer because it was a job I could do while raising <br>
> children. But nobody made me choose that. Nobody told me I had to <br>
> choose it because I was a woman. I just wanted to. Kids are important <br>
> to me and I enjoy raising them. I saw my mom being pregnant at age 40 <br>
> and I knew that wasn't what I wanted. I wanted to have my kids e arlier <br>
> in my life, when my body was more capable of keeping up with them. And <br>
> nobody's stopping me from going back to get my doctorate, if I so <br>
> choose, whenever I'm ready. <br>
> <br>
> True, if I were a man, I would not have had to choose between kids and a <br>
> fabulous career at the cutting edge of mathematics. I could have had <br>
> the career first and the kids later, if I wanted, instead of choosing <br>
> between kids-then-career or career-but-no-kids. But that has to do with <br>
> biology. If you don't like it, you can take it up with God (or <br>
> Evolution, take your pick), but it has nothing to do with the prejudice <br>
> of our fellow human beings. If a man had as strong an interest in <br>
> raising kids as I do, he wouldn't be able to pursue a fabulous career at <br>
> the same time either. There are only so many things one can do at the <br>
> same time. <br>
> <br>
> I'm not denying the facts, and I'm not sa ying there's never any <br>
> discrimination. I'm just suggesting that some of the reasons why women <br>
> earn less than men in mathematics, why women are not as highly <br>
> represented, etc. could possibly be due not to prejudice, but to the <br>
> fact that women are biologically different, and therefore are not able <br>
> to be remedied by anti-discrimination policies or projects. There are <br>
> undeniable biological differences between men and women, and these <br>
> differences are bound to drive different sets of life choices. It's <br>
> entirely possible that women can be just as good as men at mathematics, <br>
> that their talent can be recognized (anyone who says women aren't as <br>
> good at spatial relationships as men has obviously never seen a mother <br>
> pick the left shoe out of a pile of shoes and put it on the left foot of <br>
> a squirming toddler) and cultivated, and that women would still not be <br>
> proportionally repres ented in professorships. You can offer them all <br>
> the choices in the world, but you cannot make them choose what you want <br>
> just because it makes your statistics look more symmetrical. <br>
> <br>
> Just my two cents on an issue that makes me want to get up on my soapbox <br>
> every time I hear the old canards trotted out. <br>
> <br>
> Sarah Natividad <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> Rume mailing list <br>
> Rume@betterfilecabinet.com <br>
> http://betterfilecabinet.com/mailman/listinfo/rume_betterfilecabinet.com <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> Rume mailing list <br>
> Rume@betterfilecabinet.com <br>
> http://betterfilecabinet.com/mailman/listinfo/rume_betterfilecabinet.com <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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